The Wealthy Barber podcast (2025): Brian Scudamore on building a $700M business

Dave Chilton: [00:00:06:27 - 00:00:34:18] Hey, it's Dave Chilton, The Wealthy Barber and former Dragon on Dragon's Den. Welcome to The Wealthy Barber Podcast, where we'll be hosting some of the top minds in the world of personal finance. Yes, that's to balance me out. The podcast is about making the subject not just easy to understand, but dare I say, even fun. Honest. Whether you're trying to fund your retirement, figure out how to build a down payment, save for your kids' education, manage debts, whatever, we'll be here to help you do it.

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Dave Chilton: [00:00:34:21 - 00:00:56:28] Before we jump in, a quick but important note. Nothing we discuss here should be taken as investment advice. We don't know you and your personal financial situation, so we're not here to tell you where specifically to put your investment dollars. We're here to educate, get you thinking, and we hope, entertain. But please do your own research and/or consult with your financial advisor before taking any action.

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Dave Chilton: [00:00:57:00 - 00:01:17:25] Hey everybody, it's Dave Chilton, The Wealthy Barber here with episode 22 of The Wealthy Barber Podcast. Very excited. Today we're going a little bit of a different route. We tend to bring on personal finance experts from a wide variety of fields, but today we're going with one of Canada's most well-known, most well-respected entrepreneurs, Brian Scudamore.

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Dave Chilton: [00:01:17:26 - 00:01:39:29] Brian, of course, as all of you know, is 1-800-GOT-JUNK?. He has lots of other businesses we'll talk about. He's an interesting guy with a very compelling background. He grew up in San Francisco until he was 7 or 8, then moved to Vancouver. At that time, he wasn't a particularly strong student, and we'll get into that in a few moments as well. He saw an opportunity and took it, and of course, the rest is history. He now runs a company that's really impacted a lot of people's lives positively.

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Dave Chilton: [00:01:40:00 - 00:02:04:15] His franchisees have done very well. It employs a tremendous number of people; we'll get specific numbers in a few moments. It's broadened the tax base, provided a great service, and set a great example. I said a few weeks ago in the podcast, I'm very concerned with business formation numbers in Canada. They are extremely weak. We need people starting businesses, taking chances, fixing problems, and seeing opportunities.

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Dave Chilton: [00:02:04:17 - 00:02:13:09] So people like Brian, who inspire, are fantastic guests. He also knows a lot about personal finance and other subjects. So, off we go. Brian, welcome to the show.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:02:13:12 - 00:02:34:19] Well, thank you so much. It's an honor to be here. And you were always one of my favorite Dragons. And a fun fact, the first business book I ever read in my entire life was The Wealthy Barber. It was given to me as a gift by my girlfriend at the time. Her dad said, "Oh, Brian, you always talk about entrepreneurship and making money, and you're going to enjoy this book."

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Brian Scudamore: [00:02:34:20 - 00:02:38:17] And thank you for the impact you've made on Canada and the world.

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Dave Chilton: [00:02:38:20 - 00:02:58:26] I thought for sure you were setting me up for, "I got the book, and it was 1-800-GOT-JUNK? like I looked at it and it stayed and was tragic, and I chucked it away." One of the things that jumped at me about you was you went on Dragon's Den last year. You taped, or you taped season two of your tenure already, but when you went on, you got a lot of attention, obviously, because your brand is so well known.

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Dave Chilton: [00:02:58:26 - 00:03:12:27] But the thing that I was most impressed by was how many people talked about how nice a person you are, how you treat people kindly, and how you've been very employee-oriented over the years, etcetera. What do you owe that to? Did you have great parents?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:03:12:29 - 00:03:37:26] Yeah, I've got great parents. I think my grandparents, frankly, they inspired me in how to treat people in this world, especially in business. They ran an army surplus store in San Francisco in a dodgy end of town, a small business, and I used to go down there every Christmas break, summer break, and I'd work in their store as a young kid. They were the only store that did not get robbed on a regular basis in that neighborhood.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:03:37:28 - 00:03:57:03] Stores would get robbed all the time, and the word on the street was their place was called Lorber Surplus. "Don't mess with the Lorbers. They're good people," and they would listen to the homeless or people who would come into their store and complain or have an issue or ask for money, and they would just listen with a heart and treat them well.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:03:57:03 - 00:04:15:15] They didn't have to give money; they just gave an ear. And somehow that word traveled. And it made me realize how you treat people in your business as employees, customers, anyone. That's what matters most. And really, all you have at the end of the day is your reputation. So I learned from them.

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Dave Chilton: [00:04:15:17 - 00:04:22:11] Well, good for you. And they're all dodgy corners of San Francisco now. There aren’t too many great areas there anymore.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:04:22:13 - 00:04:23:13] Yes.

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Dave Chilton: [00:04:23:16 - 00:04:36:11] Okay, let's begin at the end. So before we go back and look at how you achieved all of this, let's talk about where you are right now. It's a stunning success. It really is. Just walk us through some of the numbers.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:04:36:13 - 00:04:56:03] Yeah. So today, 36 years in, and these overnight success stories sure take a long time as they say. It took me eight years to get to a million in revenue. And we did a million in revenue this morning by 10:30. So we're at a run rate of about $700 million right now with 1-800-GOT-JUNK?.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:04:56:08 - 00:05:21:00] And then, of course, we've got WOW 1 DAY PAINTING and Shack Shine. So we're three-quarters of $1 billion and growing and loving what we do in terms of the impact, not only that we make with customers, but we have something like 440 entrepreneurs in our organization who might have started in the trucks, took on an investment from family or friends, and ended up buying into the business.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:05:21:00 - 00:05:34:06] And now they're running it, whether it's Knoxville, Tennessee, Toronto, Ontario, you name it. People are building great lives for themselves by having this business format franchise that they have been able to build and grow.

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Dave Chilton: [00:05:34:08 - 00:05:37:20] Do you have corporately-owned stores or are all of these franchises?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:05:37:23 - 00:06:03:23] They're all franchised. We have started buying back some locations. So if a franchise partner ages out and decides they want to retire, we created a bit of a fund so that we can buy back some franchises if they're underperforming or someone wants out, and then we end up typically doubling them in 2 or 3 years. But we really are in the business of franchise development, finding great franchise partners and helping them be successful.

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Dave Chilton: [00:06:03:25 - 00:06:21:02] It's amazing to me that all these years, all this success, you've never taken on outside capital. We talked off air. You're not planning on going public or selling to a private equity firm. You love what you do. You're adding great value. You like the back and forth with the franchisees, etcetera. Why leave?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:06:21:04 - 00:06:46:28] Yeah, I really love what I do, so short of philanthropy, I don't know what I would do with the money if I sold the business, right? Waste Management, years ago, when I was probably $75 million in revenue, in the early days, they took me on a fishing trip to Sonora Lodge in beautiful British Columbia, and I was out on a boat 25 miles from shore or something crazy with two garbage company executives.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:06:46:28 - 00:06:49:00] It was a little Sopranos sort of feeling.

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Dave Chilton: [00:06:49:07 - 00:06:50:15] I was going to say that.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:06:50:18 - 00:07:07:11] They said, they're like, "We're going to give you an offer you can't refuse." And they were talking $100 million for my business, which would have been enough money back then to retire and do whatever I wanted to do. And I said, "No." I said, "You guys could give me $1 billion, and I'd still say no because I love what I do."

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Brian Scudamore: [00:07:07:11 - 00:07:29:29] I'm not done. And I know I'm really just getting started. And even though we're almost at $1 billion today, we now start to talk about what does $2 billion look like, what does $5 billion look like? And when you're building a business that's all about people, finding the right people and treating people right, it becomes this team/family that makes this place so special to be in.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:07:29:29 - 00:07:45:07] Why would I sell to then go take a pile of money and not know what to do with? Again, one day, philanthropically, there'll be something there. But it's like right now we're just making a big difference, developing entrepreneurs and great leaders within our business.

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Dave Chilton: [00:07:45:09 - 00:07:55:12] Now, how is your organic growth on a franchise numbers basis, say year over year or five-year period over five-year period? You're obviously adding franchises, but are you also having good growth within the franchises?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:07:55:14 - 00:08:06:18] Yeah. So we're actually, we haven't added a franchise partner into 1-800-GOT-JUNK? really for years. We might add one here and there with a small new market. But we've effectively been sold out for a decade.

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Dave Chilton: [00:08:06:20 - 00:08:06:28] Right.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:08:07:29 - 00:08:15:24] All our growth is organic in 1-800-GOT-JUNK?. Now Shack Shine and WOW 1 DAY PAINTING, we're looking for franchise partners actively and trying to grow that one day.

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Dave Chilton: [00:08:15:25 - 00:08:33:00] I love Shack Shine. No, seriously, I do. I love the business. I knew about it before we started talking about you coming on. I love the basic concept of it because I'd love to get my windows clean, my gutters cleaned out, all of those types of things. It just made perfect sense to me. And how's that doing?

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Dave Chilton: [00:08:33:00 - 00:08:35:03] Are you pleased with its growth? Its traction?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:08:35:05 - 00:08:55:25] Yeah. So Ontario would be the biggest province/state that we would be in right now in terms of penetration, which is where I know you are. And we're doing great, putting up people's Christmas lights, doing their gutters, doing their power washing and their windows. And it's growing like crazy. It's now just how do we expand that throughout the rest of Canada and the U.S.?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:08:55:28 - 00:09:22:14] And so we'll get there. And it's really about a franchise development plan. We just hired now a new head of franchise development to help us find franchise owners who want to build a great life for themselves. But it's a fun business. It's similar to 1-800-GOT-JUNK?. It's a little more complicated. It's not just throwing junk in the back of the truck, but it's a business that people love, and we become their one-stop shop for all things in, you know, sort of taking care of your home on the outside.

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Dave Chilton: [00:09:22:18 - 00:09:40:29] No, I think it was a brilliant idea, and you really harnessed your great experience. Now you've done well crossing borders. You've done well going down to the States. A lot of Canadian franchises struggled to make the transition. There are a lot of legal issues, state by state, etcetera. They just didn't have the kind of success you have. What do you owe that to?

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Dave Chilton: [00:09:41:01 - 00:09:43:23] What do you think you did well that maybe they didn't do well?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:09:43:23 - 00:10:04:04] So it's interesting, I think as an American-born entrepreneur, but Canadian-raised, my family, I've got half my family down there in San Francisco and Seattle. I've spent so much time down there that I felt like I had a good working knowledge of the differences between Canada and the United States, and frankly, I don't find there's that much of a difference.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:10:04:05 - 00:10:20:09] I find people get very intimidated and think, "Oh my gosh, the U.S. is different," but I can't really find many ways other than maybe some different laws and legislation. It's pretty business-friendly. They love entrepreneurs. They make it easy for entrepreneurs.

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Dave Chilton: [00:10:20:12 - 00:10:30:17] They do, especially on the financing front. There's a lot more capital available. Now, what about the litigious nature of the U.S., though? Has that jumped up and bitten you? Do you have to protect against that more carefully?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:10:30:20 - 00:10:49:08] Yeah. So it's definitely different. I mean, you hear this often, but most of our lawsuits have been in California, most exclusively, and it is a litigious state. And it's unfortunate, but you just try and find good people and treat them well so that you don't have to deal with lawsuits. But occasionally they happen, and it's a part of business.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:10:49:08 - 00:11:16:01] It's an unfortunate part. But yeah, we don't get sued in Canada. It's interesting. That is a point where I would say it is very different than the United States. And when a business deal goes sideways and isn't as people planned, I think the best way is to talk about it and work it through. And I think often when people work through those things without lawyers and have a proper conversation over it, it can be cheaper and more effective for everybody.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:11:16:01 - 00:11:19:06] But it has been, it has been harder in the U.S.

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Dave Chilton: [00:11:19:08 - 00:11:37:12] Yeah, that's always the big challenge. But you've obviously overcome it brilliantly. Now let's go back to the very beginning. You're in high school. You end up dropping out prior to graduation. The story, of course, is quite famous now. You're in a McDonald's drive-through, if I'm not mistaken. You see a truck in front of you. It's delivering junk, and this triggers something.

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Dave Chilton: [00:11:37:12 - 00:11:39:15] And off you go. Is it really that simple?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:11:39:17 - 00:11:58:07] Yeah, it was that simple. So I really was behind this truck and looking at this thing, going, "Okay, I need to find a way to pay for college." Now, my dad is a recently retired liver transplant surgeon. My mother was a realtor, and the two of them believed that I needed to earn my own education.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:11:58:08 - 00:12:17:22] Right? Especially having not graduated from high school. I didn't finish high school. I dropped out with one course left, and they're like, "We're not going to fund your college education." And so I ended up finding a way to pay for it. And it was a serendipitous moment of seeing this truck in a drive-through, going, "I'm going to go buy a truck of my own and haul junk" two weeks later.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:12:17:22 - 00:12:40:23] You'll love this, Dave. I had a business, and it had made more money, paid off all its startup expenses, including the cost of the truck. And I was just like, "Okay, this is great." And then it inspired me. I was learning much more while I talked my way into college, funded my own college. I was learning much more running a business than I was studying in school.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:12:40:24 - 00:12:53:25] Entrepreneur programs didn't exist back then, right? And so I made a bold decision to drop out with a year left. And I remember sitting down with my dad, who's done more schooling than anyone on the planet, and he's like, "What are you doing, Bri?"

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Brian Scudamore: [00:12:54:00 - 00:13:03:02] And I said, "You know what? I'm just learning so much here, and I'm loving life." And so he trusted me. And today he thinks I made the right decision.

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Dave Chilton: [00:13:03:05 - 00:13:15:19] Yeah, they must be incredibly proud. And I've got to ask you, I mean, back in the day when people did the junk moving in those trucks, they always put those plywood sheets up on the side to contain the junk. Did it have that, and did you do that initially as well?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:13:15:21 - 00:13:37:16] Oh, of course I did. I copied everyone else out there, and I started to realize that these trucks were junky and not safe. So one of the first things I did in the industry was starting to build these proper metal boxes out of an outfit in Calgary, and we started having this franchise look and feel to the business, even before we had actually franchised the company.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:13:37:19 - 00:14:05:24] So it was about safety and professionalism and having clean, shiny trucks, friendly, informed drivers. We'd always said we wanted to model after FedEx, and they had always had such an incredible look and feel to everything they did. I said, "Why can't we bring that to the junk removal business?" And with the name 1-800-GOT-JUNK? as a professionally sounding national brand, even before we were national, that became a marketing sort of, piece of marketing gold for us.

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Dave Chilton: [00:14:06:00 - 00:14:21:21] Well, the name was brilliant. Let's be honest, I don't think anybody else has ever used a phone number as their own name. At least they hadn't at that time. From so many perspectives, it was great. It was memorable. Did you come up with that, and was it available? Like, how did you just go out and get 1-800-GOT-JUNK?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:14:21:23 - 00:14:44:18] Yeah. So we modeled the idea after 1-800-Flowers out of the U.S., a big florist. So they had done it, and we thought, "Okay, I need to get this phone number." We were called The Rubbish Boys throughout Canada. Our phone number was 738-JUNK, and it was just a local number. So if we wanted to expand this, we needed a name and a phone number that are one together.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:14:44:18 - 00:15:04:20] And we came up with this 1-800-GOT-JUNK?. Now, in calling the number, I couldn't find out who owned it. It was a working number somewhere, and I finally tracked down after 59 phone calls, it was the Department of Transportation, the government, who owned this phone number in Idaho, and they said it's a working number, and they didn't want to give it up.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:15:04:26 - 00:15:20:15] And so I found a guy, Michael, in the phone room who took a liking to me. And after three calls to him, he said, "You know what? Just take the number." And he did all the AT&T paperwork, got it over to me. A couple of days later, I get on the phone to thank him. He's no longer with the business.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:15:20:15 - 00:15:30:29] I have no idea what happened to Michael, but I got the number, and I got it for free. And so there we were. The rest became history, and it was really a marketing win for us.

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Dave Chilton: [00:15:31:04 - 00:15:54:26] Oh, huge. I mean, when I first heard about all this, I was fascinated by it because you, to your credit, were really ahead of the curve. When you look now at the private equity landscape, etcetera, we're seeing so many roll-ups in the professionalization of businesses, whether it's veterinarian clinics or dentists' offices. But to some extent, you went into what has always been a mom-and-pop industry, the junk removal business, and you brought branding, you brought professionalism.

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Dave Chilton: [00:15:54:26 - 00:16:03:26] You mentioned bringing uniforms and bright colors. All of those types of things helped you to stand out. That's common today. But when you did it, you didn't see it that often.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:16:03:29 - 00:16:25:25] No, it was table... it's table stakes today. But back then, no one was doing it. And we would push hard on some things that our employees or franchise owners said didn't matter. Our franchise owner said it's expensive to wash your truck every day. It's expensive to clean your uniforms every day. And we would say, "Yeah, exactly. But you never get a second chance to make a first impression."

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Brian Scudamore: [00:16:25:27 - 00:16:45:08] It matters. And people would argue with us and say, "It doesn't matter. Clients don't care. They just want their junk gone." Well, you know what? They're right. They do want their junk gone. But the reason they care is you want people coming to your home that you feel you can trust, that you don't mind greeting and being around your family and your pets and so on.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:16:45:11 - 00:16:51:01] And so we had to get that right. And professionalism mattered even in the junk removal space.

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Dave Chilton: [00:16:51:03 - 00:17:10:13] I love the fact that unlike so many businesses, you didn't have to worry too much about damages. You pick up junk. It's junk. You can just toss it in the back and then take it to wherever you're taking it to and toss it there. And that part of it had to be fairly appealing and let you go for lower-skilled labor as well, somebody who may be a little quicker in moving, etcetera.

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Dave Chilton: [00:17:10:14 - 00:17:17:20] How did you pick the labor? How did you pick the franchisees? Did they have to have some physical skills as well? Some strength?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:17:17:24 - 00:17:39:26] Yeah, I mean, you're not lifting like thousands of pounds. I mean, you're lifting sort of everyday stuff that, you know, two people can lift and throw in the back of the truck, and you can always figure out a way as long as you got a partner. So with two people in every truck, we were really looking for smiley, friendly, customer-service-driven people that would want to run almost an efficient business for the day.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:17:40:00 - 00:17:56:21] How much junk could they get in the truck? How efficient could they be in terms of where they dropped it off? Could they upsell a client by letting them know that, "Oh, by the way, here's extra things we take. Do you have any of those?" And it became this lesson in entrepreneurship, almost in the way that College Pro Painters, if you remember them.

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Dave Chilton: [00:17:56:23 - 00:17:57:11] For sure. Of course, very well.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:17:57:12 - 00:18:21:06] They teach students how to run a business. And that's what we did. So finding people was much more about finding future. And early day employees were future doctors, lawyers, real estate agents, people who were going to school for something that would do this during the summer months. And so we got really smart, happy-go-lucky people who really impressed our customers.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:18:21:06 - 00:18:28:25] And it made a massive difference on our growth in the early days, and we stuck to it, just making sure that we find the right people and we treat them right.

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Dave Chilton: [00:18:28:26 - 00:18:45:06] You must have benefited from the technology of the last 10 to 20 years. GPS, for example, now allowing you to lay out your routes much more effectively. And to some extent, that's what this business is all about, the logistics and the efficiency of how you pick up, what you pick up. Have you harnessed all that, and did you get on it right away?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:18:45:12 - 00:19:06:03] Yeah. So we became a tech company right from the beginning, and maybe it was my love for technology, but we built out a website that was called Junk Net, and it allowed us to do our booking and dispatch of all our jobs to all our franchise partners. Whatever city they were in, they would get notifications on their cell phones, they would get notifications on the web.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:19:06:09 - 00:19:32:21] And so as early as the late '90s, when we franchised, we made every use of technology we could. We created a call center where we took all the calls for 1-800-GOT-JUNK?, and we still do today, albeit that all our agents work from home. And now we're starting to use AI and technology even further. But we couldn't have grown as an international franchise in Canada, the U.S., and Australia without being adopters of these great technologies.

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Dave Chilton: [00:19:32:21 - 00:19:38:06] Why Australia, by the way, is the third country, and why not some others? What keeps you out of some regions?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:19:38:06 - 00:19:49:20] So Australia and the UK, we launched at the same time. We decided we were going to go into some international markets, just because it would be a great possibility to see happen.

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Dave Chilton: [00:19:49:24 - 00:19:52:08] You wanted to travel?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:19:52:08 - 00:20:16:01] Yeah, travel, and we wanted to actually just enjoy building something in another country and see if we could. Now we succeeded in Australia, and we failed in the UK. We picked obviously English-speaking countries, right? And they both seemed to make sense to us. But the UK, they had much smaller trucks, they had much smaller alleys. People don't throw things away nearly as much.

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Dave Chilton: [00:20:16:03 - 00:20:16:15] Harder.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:20:16:18 - 00:20:38:19] And it became a challenge. So we gave it a year and realized it wasn't working, and we needed to focus and pick a country. So we closed down Birmingham, England, which was the first city we started in, and we just went all-in on Australia. Now we're in every market in Australia and doing great, and maybe one day we'll go back to the UK and figure out how to do it right.

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Dave Chilton: [00:20:38:21 - 00:20:46:04] When you go into these countries, do you use corporately-owned stores initially to get the lay of the land and then worry about franchising after you've established the right procedures?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:20:46:05 - 00:20:54:13] Yeah, that's what we did in Australia, and we did it corporately, sold off corporately when we got it to a level where, as you said, we did it right.

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Dave Chilton: [00:20:54:16 - 00:21:05:05] Yeah, it's a fascinating... I mean, I love the master franchise business model. Do you run in a fairly typical way? You're paid a royalty of the revenue of the franchisee, and you provide other services to them as well?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:21:05:05 - 00:21:24:26] We do. So we do all the booking and dispatch. So let's pick Shack Shine as an example. We'll book all the customer jobs. We've got a marketing engine that does all the direct mail and email marketing to customers and gets them in for repeat business. We have the software that we create for our truck teams across different brands to track all their revenue and so on.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:21:24:26 - 00:21:46:24] So a lot of different services we provide, we charge a royalty, and they can focus on pounding the pavement, driving their business, building a great team of technicians in Shack Shine or painters for WOW 1 DAY PAINTING. And we focus as the franchisor on getting national press attention, national accounts, and really helping them build and scale their business.

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Dave Chilton: [00:21:46:27 - 00:22:05:29] When you look at the three businesses and you look at the franchisees who've done very, very well, even relative to a solid area that they're in, what are the common denominators you see? What do the good franchisees do well, over and over again? Is it the consistency of sticking to the system? Is that their personal relationships? All of the above?

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Dave Chilton: [00:22:05:29 - 00:22:07:12] What do you see in these people?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:22:07:15 - 00:22:23:27] Yeah, all of the above, things that you would expect. I think number one is that they really care about their people in the same way that we do, finding the right people and developing them. So if I pick Paul Guy, the first franchise partner who started in Toronto, it took me eight years to get to a million in revenue.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:22:23:29 - 00:22:45:29] He did a million in his first year, and then he started to scale. And they're up to $100 million today with all that they own throughout Nashville, they own all over New York, they own in Australia. And what they've done is they've taken a lot of their truck team members and said, "Hey, listen, do you want an opportunity? One day you might not afford to be able to buy in, but we'll help you earn in."

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Brian Scudamore: [00:22:46:02 - 00:23:15:29] And one day you go run a franchise in Charlotte, North Carolina, as an example. And so they've built a master franchise model in that way of other entrepreneurs. But we find great people. We treat them well and develop them. And what makes these amazing franchise partners amazing is that they really understand the importance of people and the importance, like you said, of following systems. We give them a recipe, something I loved about The Wealthy Barber and still do today.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:23:16:04 - 00:23:41:23] It is a system of how to financially build wealth throughout your entire life. And if you follow it, the 10% pay yourself first, low-cost mutual funds, like all those things make sense. They have and always will. And so if people are looking for a system, this is a way to be successful in business. A lot of people get out there and invent the idea from scratch, like I might have.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:23:42:01 - 00:23:51:03] But then I spent eight years figuring out how to get to $1 million, right? All of this goes, "Give me the keys, dude. Let me start this thing up." And a million in a year.

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Dave Chilton: [00:23:51:05 - 00:24:04:28] Yeah, no, that's a great example. It really is. Let's go back to the early days. How did you figure out your pricing model? That's one of the most challenging things to do when you first enter a service industry. Did you just look at the competitors and basically take the average number? What did you do?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:24:05:06 - 00:24:32:08] Yeah, that's exactly it. So I looked at what all the competition was doing, and they were between $80 and $120 a load. And so I said, "I'm going to charge $120 a load, and do a really good job." And I didn't try and undercut anyone. And that all worked. And then we got an article in the Vancouver Province, the front page of the local newspaper, and they misprinted our pricing and said it was $138 a load.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:24:32:11 - 00:24:54:26] And I was like, "Oh my gosh, our sales, our pricing just went up by 18 bucks. We're in trouble." People said, "Oh, it's 138 bucks. That sounds reasonable." So we actually kept that as our new prices and realized all it did was help grow the business. So, you know, pricing. We got a little bit lucky. But copying the competition is what I think has worked for us.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:24:54:28 - 00:25:20:29] We've always held a belief that the low-cost provider in retail, for example, Best Buy or Walmart, you know, they often are the biggest. They can make it up on volume. But when you're in a service, you need to hire great people. And that costs more. And so the high-cost provider, as long as you're not exorbitant, you know, we've got a pricing scheme that still makes sense, and you're still in the market.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:25:21:02 - 00:25:26:02] But on the higher side, because it costs good money to find and keep good people. And that's what...

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Dave Chilton: [00:25:26:02 - 00:25:46:06] No business has proved that more than landscaping. I mean, you go in city after city across Canada, and the landscapers that have thrived and been around for decades are the ones that have been the higher-cost providers. They've done a wonderful job. To your point, they've had the revenue to support good people, support good training, keep their equipment modernized, etcetera, etcetera. You get what you pay for.

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Dave Chilton: [00:25:46:09 - 00:26:01:28] And what helped you when you got to the $138, of course, is there's a perception out there that you get what you pay for. So sometimes people see a higher price, they assume you're going to do a better job. And then you guys backed it up. Interesting question. What challenges do they run into most often during the pickup?

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Dave Chilton: [00:26:01:28 - 00:26:07:24] Just tough to get at stairs? That type of thing? Poor weather? Like what are you up against in some of these places?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:26:07:28 - 00:26:29:29] Oh yeah, I mean it can be very physical. It can be, you know, if you're cleaning up a construction site and it's all little bits of wood that you've got to pick up all by hand, if they've got to carry things a long distance. So it can be physically demanding. Weather, as you mentioned, I mean, it's no fun hauling a whole bunch of construction in the rain, in the snow, you know, in the intense heat in Phoenix.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:26:29:29 - 00:26:41:23] So these things happen. But I'd say weather is the big challenge. Customers are the fun part, because most customers are just so relieved when we take away their junk to do something they didn't want to do.

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Dave Chilton: [00:26:41:28 - 00:26:45:01] Have any wives tried to send their husband along? When you asked.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:26:45:04 - 00:27:06:13] The most overused jokes. "About my ex-wife, here's her phone number. Here's her email address. Go get her." I mean, it happens all the time. Ex-husbands. And then we found some cool things, which, surprisingly, sometimes you're on site and you're like, "Oh my gosh, there's like, treasure here." Literally. So the biggest, best find ever in history was actually in Vancouver.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:27:06:19 - 00:27:25:09] And we found $400,000 in cash. So it was in the floorboards of a house slash old restaurant that was being renovated. And one of our truck team members noticed between two floorboards what looked like money. He brought over the customer and said, "What is this? This looks like money." And they said, "Oh my gosh, I think it is."

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Brian Scudamore: [00:27:25:10 - 00:27:44:18] They used a crowbar, brought up the flooring, and then ended up taking up the entire floor in the whole house. They found $400,000 in cash in 1932 circulation bills. So when they did the calculation, it was all covered in the press. It was $5.3 million back in the day, and nobody...

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Dave Chilton: [00:27:44:18 - 00:27:46:23] What, did it come from a bank robbery or something?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:27:46:23 - 00:27:57:23] Nobody knows. Still, to this day, nobody. The house had changed hands so many times. Nobody knew what it was from. But the owners got a $400,000 cheaper renovation is all we know.

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Dave Chilton: [00:27:58:00 - 00:28:01:29] And you know, a serious question. Did they give a big tip to the fellow who spotted that?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:28:02:01 - 00:28:12:25] They did. They were very generous. And they, you know, they felt like the truck team members not only helped out a customer and made their day, but as two students who just got a big whack of cash, they were...

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Dave Chilton: [00:28:12:28 - 00:28:28:25] Pretty excited. Now, I mentioned earlier that I'm worried about business formation in Canada. The stats aren't strong. What are your thoughts on why we're running into this? Do you think it's regulation, taxes? Are we doing something wrong in terms of trying to ignite the interest in young people? Where's this problem coming from?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:28:28:27 - 00:28:50:17] I think a lot of it is related to the economy. And the technology world has been pretty strong for a long time. So there were people leaving our business and leaving any company to go work for another big company and making ridiculous money. It was easier to go find a job and make money and have the security than to go out and start your own business.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:28:50:17 - 00:29:13:21] And I think that you get different circumstances that necessitate change. I think that we're going to see, my prediction anyways, who knows, is that with all the AI that's happening, there's going to be people losing their jobs, as we're seeing some large numbers, and being replaced. There's going to be people then where they're forced to go, "I can't depend on anyone else."

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Brian Scudamore: [00:29:13:21 - 00:29:42:07] "What am I going to do to take my own livelihood into my own hands?" And they'll go start businesses. So it's generally some down economies, the Great Depression of 1929, where people would go, "Oh, wow, I just... I have to start a company, I've got to do something on my own." And they think creatively. Or when all the baby boomers came back after the war, there were all these people that were untrained in terms of career set who said, "I've got to do something for myself."

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Brian Scudamore: [00:29:42:07 - 00:30:04:23] And that was one of the biggest waves in the growth of entrepreneurship. So I think it's just the situation we've created, neither good nor bad, but just the growing technology world and the stable economy for so many years has said to somebody, they know that starting a business is hard. It is. But when you've got to get out there and you're sort of forced to do it differently.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:30:04:24 - 00:30:17:07] I mean, my business was partially started because not only was I looking for a way to pay for college, but it was a tight summer job market, and I was having a hard time finding my own job. So I went out and created one.

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Dave Chilton: [00:30:17:14 - 00:30:37:01] And you and I are the exact same. I was a co-op at Laurier. It was one of those down economic cycles. And so Alex Moustakas and I started up GIC Agency because in essence, you're forced to, to get creative and look for new opportunities. So now you started two more of these businesses as opposed to just focusing on the one you already have.

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Dave Chilton: [00:30:37:03 - 00:30:46:01] Why? You knew the formula. You saw opportunity there. You thought, "Let's do it again." It's fun to grow. Growth is different than when you're in a mature industry. All those things drew you in.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:30:46:01 - 00:31:03:16] I think we were motivated. I mean, part of it was ego, going, "Hey, we could own other places as well. We're the world's largest junk removal company. What about being the world's largest house detailing company?" And so part of it was ego-driven, for sure. But part of it really was just, "Wow, what another unique challenge and opportunity."

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Brian Scudamore: [00:31:03:16 - 00:31:22:09] I think we were a little arrogant in the beginning when we started the other two brands, thinking, "Oh, we've done this once and built a business that's hundreds of millions of dollars, this’ll be a piece of cake." It was really hard. And it still is hard because they're very different businesses, but they're equally as enjoyable. And there's lots and lots of opportunity.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:31:22:09 - 00:31:42:24] And so the challenge is a little bit of how do you evolve yourself and evolve a brand in a different space to make sure that it succeeds? And it's that opportunity of just, "Well, we get to do this." I remember Robert Herjavec, who we both know and who was also a Dragon. I interviewed him once at one of our conferences.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:31:42:24 - 00:32:01:22] And I said in front of our franchise partners, "What advice do you have for our entrepreneurs to get through tough times?" And he's like, "Brian, we have to remember, we get to do this. As entrepreneurs, we get the ups and the downs, and we've got to approach them both with curiosity and a smile and just make it happen."

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Brian Scudamore: [00:32:01:28 - 00:32:17:19] And so some of the best days in my business career have been some of the most challenging ones in Shack Shine and WOW 1 DAY PAINTING, going, "Okay, this is harder than we expected. What are we going to do to modify that business and that model to make it succeed?"

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Dave Chilton: [00:32:17:22 - 00:32:25:01] What has the painting world, for example, thrown at you that you weren't expecting? So when you talk about it being tougher than you thought, why?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:32:25:03 - 00:32:49:00] I think there are just so many mom-and-pop, one-shop sort of painters. It's easy for someone to buy a brush and, you know, take the bus. They don't even need a van to get to work. They can just show up at someone's house, "I'm a painter, and I've got the experience." So a lot of competition. But the exciting part on the flip side is there aren't really many brands in that space who stand out.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:32:49:00 - 00:33:09:18] If you think of, "Oh, I need my house painted, who's the 1-800-GOT-JUNK? of the space?" It's often challenging to think that way. So the two kind of balance each other out. And one thing we're looking at right now is similar to 1-800-GOT-JUNK?. We will find people even if they don't know how to paint, but they want to run a business and lead people.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:33:09:23 - 00:33:29:29] That becomes compelling to them to learn how to build and scale a business, even in a space that it might be harder to find people. You figure out these things as you go. I mean, look at the DoorDash of the world or the Ubers of the world. They found this gig economy, and they've been able to hire all these amazing people to run a side business.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:33:30:00 - 00:33:31:24] Why can't we in the painting space?

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Dave Chilton: [00:33:31:27 - 00:33:37:09] No, that makes a lot of sense. It's residential only. You're not doing commercial. Is it inside only, or do you do outside as well?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:33:37:10 - 00:34:00:25] We do inside and outside. Yeah, interior and exterior. And we do some light commercial. But the focus is more, especially with the name. WOW 1 DAY PAINTING, we go into someone's home. As when I discovered the brand, I was looking for someone to paint my house, and at the end of the day, it was this one company that, floor to ceiling moldings, trims, had my entire house done within a day, and I was like, "Wow."

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Brian Scudamore: [00:34:00:27 - 00:34:02:19] And that became the name of the business.

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Dave Chilton: [00:34:02:19 - 00:34:03:14] That's cool.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:34:03:14 - 00:34:04:27] That’s what we're trying to grow.

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Dave Chilton: [00:34:05:01 - 00:34:20:04] Well, I'm going to give you a third franchise plug. I am old, and when you get to be my age, it's amazing how many people fall off ladders. And I can say, anybody 55 and up, do not clean your own eavestroughs.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:34:20:05 - 00:34:20:16] No.

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Dave Chilton: [00:34:20:22 - 00:34:37:24] Do not go there. I mean, I have so many friends who've had major accidents falling off ladders. It's just not a good thing. Bring in an outside firm and let them do it for you. Now, you did something very clever that got a lot of attention, and I thought it was brilliant, actually. You're looking to fight out the seasonality of that particular business.

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Dave Chilton: [00:34:37:24 - 00:34:51:11] You're obviously slowing down at Christmas. Some people say, "So what? As long as you're making enough money the other nine months." Whatever. The problem is employees. How do you keep them busy? How do you keep them motivated? How do you keep them? Period. And one of the ideas you guys came up with was to put up Christmas lights for people.

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Dave Chilton: [00:34:51:14 - 00:34:55:11] Did you know it was going to be this big an idea when you first brainstormed it?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:34:55:12 - 00:35:16:05] No idea. No idea. I mean, it is the biggest, most profitable part of Shack Shine. It's done in a smaller seasonality, for sure. It does keep people busy, but you've got ladders, you've got vans, and it's like, why not put those people to work? And it's been exceptional. I mean, we're putting up Christmas lights. We're putting up lights for Diwali.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:35:16:13 - 00:35:40:29] We're putting up seasonal lights for you name it, Easter. If people have a sports team, an NFL team that's in the playoffs, and they want their lights put up in those colors, it's really taken off. And it's been a fun business that really makes people smile and feel happy. And then it goes viral in a sense that when we start doing a block and we have our Shack Shine sign out front, others go, "Oh wow, I need to get Shack Shine."

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Brian Scudamore: [00:35:41:00 - 00:35:48:26] And it starts, starts to spread. So the business fits very well. We just had no idea that it would end up being about a third of our revenue.

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Dave Chilton: [00:35:49:03 - 00:35:54:10] Can they ever get the lights from you? Do you go that far to actually provide them? You do.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:35:54:12 - 00:36:10:19] Yeah we do. So there's a factory in China that creates all of these, they come in so many different custom sizes and colors and shapes. And that's where we're able to give a customer a real sense of, "Hey, you want something unique on your house? Let's do it."

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Dave Chilton: [00:36:10:21 - 00:36:21:20] I'm going to get Detroit Lions lighting next year from you guys, for sure. Now, I talked about the ladders. You didn't have a chance to comment. Was I not right there that that's something older people should be staying away from fully?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:36:21:25 - 00:36:39:12] Yeah. So I literally have a friend in Long Island, New York, who called me after he fell off his ladder, and we were in a forum group together through the Entrepreneur Organization. And so he should have used Shack Shine. He knew about Shack Shine, but "I don't want to bug them." And, "You know what? I enjoy getting outside on the ladder."

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Brian Scudamore: [00:36:39:13 - 00:36:49:02] He's up on the ladder. He fell, broke his shoulder or collarbone. And the first thing he said when he hit the ground was, "I should have called Shack Shine." Marketing for you.

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Dave Chilton: [00:36:49:07 - 00:36:56:02] Yeah. There's your next commercial, for sure. Did you run into insurance challenges in that industry? Is it expensive to insure all of this?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:36:56:06 - 00:37:05:22] Yeah, I mean, it's not ridiculous. It's, it's doable. I mean, insurance is a fact of life, and it's something you've got to have in business. It's not, not ridiculous.

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Dave Chilton: [00:37:05:29 - 00:37:10:25] What does the extreme weather do to any of these businesses? Has it been a bit of a help to the latter of them?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:37:10:26 - 00:37:31:04] You know what, it can be a good thing and a bad thing. You know, you end up getting flooding that's happened recently. Texas, for example, a horrific downpour that, you know, takes lives. We do see whenever there's a big flood that we get a ton of business for 1-800-GOT-JUNK? and people will have all this stuff, flooded basements, garages, you name it.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:37:31:07 - 00:37:53:18] So weather does have an impact, whether, as you can imagine, can impact Shack Shine. You know, dust starts going everywhere in Phoenix, and people now need their windows done. And extreme cold, though, can make it tough when you can't access water in Chicago. So every region is different and has sort of some puts and takes, if you will, and you just work through it all.

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Dave Chilton: [00:37:53:20 - 00:38:04:06] Interesting. Now let's talk a little bit about your Dragon's Den experience. Have you enjoyed it? Have you ended up getting involved with some of the deals? I mean, I met so many wonderful people through that show. It was amazing.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:38:04:09 - 00:38:20:13] Yeah, it is so fun, Dave. So I remember talking to Robert Herjavec before I officially accepted and trying to sort of put my name in the ring. And he's been a friend. And, you know, he asked me why I wanted to do it, and he was really pushing me to like, "Why do you want this? Do you want to be famous?"

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Brian Scudamore: [00:38:20:13 - 00:38:37:17] "What's the deal?" And I said, "I just want to inspire entrepreneurship. I love the fact that I've been able to build these three businesses. I want to take Canadian entrepreneurship and help be a part of inspiring the next generation." Doesn't mean they're going to come join us in our business, but in any business. And it's done that and more.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:38:37:17 - 00:38:58:17] And I remember Robert said to me, "Go tell the producers that. Tell them you're why." So I did, and I got the role, and I filmed my second season. And the Dragons, as you know, we become friends and close, and we, we work together. And Arlene Dickinson will sit there and coach me on how to do a deal. I'd never done a deal in my life.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:38:58:19 - 00:39:22:18] And then suddenly I'm sitting beside Arlene Dickinson, the OG, and she starts sharing all this info with me, and we have fun. So last year I did eight deals, and three closed. We didn't close them all. We thought we were going to close a fourth, but the woman didn't want to partner last minute and backed out. This year I did seven deals on TV on this next season, and we'll see what it turns into.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:39:22:20 - 00:39:42:16] I don't know if I'm going to have the same closing ratio that you do, but certainly having fun and meeting really neat people. And one thing we do is we bring all the entrepreneurs to Vancouver once a year forever. You know, the people that we do deals with, we're trying to build a little community where they can like it and learn not just from us, but from each other.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:39:42:19 - 00:39:48:22] And they've been staying in touch and having so much fun. So it's, it's been neat. It's, I, I feel...

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Dave Chilton: [00:39:48:26 - 00:40:08:28] You're very good. You know, you really are. You're such an authentic person. And again, I'm going to toot your horn a little bit. When you talked about your "why," you've accomplished it because you're not coming from just high-tech. So many of the entrepreneurs that draw all the attention are tech geniuses. They're so good at the digital sphere, and a lot of Canadians don't relate to that as well.

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Dave Chilton: [00:40:09:02 - 00:40:28:22] Yeah, they don't feel they have that confidence. They didn't have that educational background. They see someone like you in more traditional industries who's come up with innovative ways to draw attention, build momentum, etcetera, and it is inspiring. And they think, "I can do that." They watch you on the show where I think you're wonderful. And again, you come across very authentically, and you're very nice to people on the show.

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Dave Chilton: [00:40:28:25 - 00:40:41:29] I know when I was at first on, it was nice to people. That was unusual, but now more Dragons have kind of swung over that way, and they're trying to help. They're trying to raise others and be kinder. So yeah, that's all very, very good. I'm glad you're doing well. By the way, you brought up an interesting point.

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Dave Chilton: [00:40:42:00 - 00:40:56:15] You're saying that one woman changed her mind. A lot of viewers are critical of the show because they say, "Oh, I hear a lot of deals didn't close." Well, a couple of things. Naturally, a lot of deals aren't going to close because, to be honest, you get a lot of misinformation on the show. Of course, a lot of the answers aren't right.

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Dave Chilton: [00:40:56:15 - 00:41:16:06] And it's not that people are intentionally misleading you. In most cases, they don't know their numbers particularly well. That's true. But there's a second thing that comes into play much more often than the viewers realize, that people aren't really there to get the money. They want the exposure of the show, the contacts, maybe a strategic partner, but they're already financed, don't need it, or don't need it under the terms they're talking about in the show.

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Dave Chilton: [00:41:16:08 - 00:41:31:17] Like I remember Bruce Croxon had a run where he said yes to several deals in a row, and the people didn't need the money. Yeah. And people might say, "Bruce, you didn't close those deals." Well, "They wouldn't let me." And so it doesn't work quite the way people think. So I'm not surprised one person changed their mind. But three closings in one year is excellent.

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Dave Chilton: [00:41:31:17 - 00:41:37:00] And it's so much fun. It's so much fun staying in touch with the entrepreneurs, helping them out, making introductions, all of it.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:41:37:04 - 00:41:54:10] Yeah, it feels impactful, right, to have absolutely so many mentors in my life that have helped me so generously with their time and energy to help make my business better now, to be able to give back and watch others and just give them one little tip that might make a big difference. It's really rewarding.

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Dave Chilton: [00:41:54:12 - 00:41:59:02] Are you ever going to go back and get that last high school course, or is this just over? It's not happening for you.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:41:59:06 - 00:42:21:01] Absolutely not. I think, I think it's one of those things that I held on to for so long that I fought with my dad, where my dad was like, "Just go back and finish your one course short, blah, blah." No. I, I kind of have fun with the story, and so I'm glad I didn't. And where it sometimes inspires people, as people will say to me, "You know, Brian, I didn't finish high school either."

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Brian Scudamore: [00:42:21:04 - 00:42:36:04] Or, "Brian, you know, I don't know how to read books." And they'll tell me something that they find relatable in me, that they go, "Hey, Brian, you're so ADD, you have trouble reading, so am I." Yet it gives them permission to go be able to start a business.

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Dave Chilton: [00:42:36:07 - 00:42:41:15] So you nailed one there. I mean, the percentage of successful entrepreneurs who have ADD is through the roof.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:42:41:16 - 00:42:42:02] Oh.

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Dave Chilton: [00:42:42:04 - 00:43:03:02] It's like a blessing, not a curse when it comes to entrepreneurship. It's crazy. The thing I, if I were in your shoes, I think the thing I'd be most proud of is that if you look at Canada, it's probably true in the States too. But it has to be. 60 to 70% of Canadian households have at some point used 1-800-GOT-JUNK? like everybody's used that service at one point or another.

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Dave Chilton: [00:43:03:02 - 00:43:04:08] That's exciting.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:43:04:10 - 00:43:26:24] It is. It feels good. You know, it's been 36 years of building it. We've got lots of great things that continue to get better, and we've got such wonderful people. But we talked about it today, that on a given year, we have enough customers to fill every single stadium, baseball stadium in North America, every single one with people still standing outside.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:43:26:25 - 00:43:35:17] And so it's, it's amazing how much it's grown. And again, I just, I feel like, why would I ever sell this if I'm still having this much fun?

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Dave Chilton: [00:43:35:19 - 00:43:38:24] No, I agree. And you've got relatively young kids. How old are your kids?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:43:38:26 - 00:43:41:14] Yeah, they range from 13 years old up to 20.

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Dave Chilton: [00:43:41:20 - 00:43:45:05] And do you think that any of them will step into the business at some point, or too early to tell?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:43:45:07 - 00:44:01:11] It's early to tell, and they've never really expressed interest. But there is, there's entrepreneurial sparks there. I don't want to, I don't want them to feel like their dad wants them to join the business. I want them to go, "Hey, Dad, I'd really love a chance at this." And they come to me, so we'll see what happens.

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Dave Chilton: [00:44:01:13 - 00:44:06:03] Are you going to open up a fourth and a fifth at any point, or are you going to focus on these three for a while?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:44:06:06 - 00:44:32:23] I think if the opportunity strikes itself. I mean, we're, we're busy. We've got our hands full with three brands right now, and, and it's a lot. And there are challenges always at different times with different brands. So to us, it's all about the right people. If we've got a leader that's leading one of the brands, like we do an incredible woman leading Shack Shine right now, she is on fire, and it's like, we don't have to do a lot in that business because she's so good.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:44:32:25 - 00:44:39:03] And so, would we start another? I think if we found the right business and the right leader, we probably would.

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Dave Chilton: [00:44:39:06 - 00:44:54:25] Now, you must have come to know Canada's most famous franchisor, Jim Treliving, very well over the years. Boston Pizza, a former Dragon. One of the nicest people I've ever met. He and his wife Sandi Treliving are incredibly giving, very involved in the community. Do you cross paths with him and share stories about the business?

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Brian Scudamore: [00:44:54:27 - 00:45:12:21] Yeah, many times. So a couple of fun facts there. When I auditioned for Dragon's Den the first time, it took me three times. The very first time was the first season before it was actually a show, and in the end, when they gave me a no, they said, "Actually, you lost out to the Boston Pizza guy." And I was, "Okay."

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Brian Scudamore: [00:45:12:21 - 00:45:24:00] "Well, that's okay then," knowing that, like, "God, he's awesome." And then I got to know Jim over the years, I reached out a couple of times. We actually just had lunch recently together. And he's fantastic.

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Dave Chilton: [00:45:24:03 - 00:45:24:28] He is a gentleman.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:45:24:29 - 00:45:47:11] Eighty-four years old and at his age, can be in the business as actively involved and still feeling so lucky to be a part of the business. I mean, wow, that's where you really want in life. But yes, he and Sandi, great people they are. And they've done a similar type of thing where, you know, you look at you, me, him, like we've all loved what we've done.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:45:47:13 - 00:45:56:03] And we, we take the ups and downs, and both of them are like, "Okay, let's go, let's continue on. This is fun." And he's an amazing guy.

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Dave Chilton: [00:45:56:07 - 00:46:02:19] You know, it's funny you bring up, we talked about Jim and Sandi, but you look back at Dragon's Den in 19, 20 years. It's the 20th year.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:46:02:21 - 00:46:04:05] Yeah, this was the 20th season.

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Dave Chilton: [00:46:04:07 - 00:46:25:14] And people love to take shots at the CBC. But they've done a wonderful job of choosing the Dragons. Look how involved in the community across this country most of the Dragons have been. Like the charity involvement levels are through the roof, the giving back, the taking of the calls, like Jim Treliving did when you called. All of that, I find the Dragons have been amazing, and the current crop is very good still.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:46:25:16 - 00:46:46:00] Yeah. No, I think there's so much fun to work with. And yes, people don't get to see the behind-the-scenes of what really happens when the cameras are off. But I will say that when I look at those five Dragons, everybody there is like in it for the right reasons. They care about Canadian entrepreneurship. They want to help.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:46:46:05 - 00:46:52:00] They're willing to give time even when they don't do a deal. They're great, good people there for the right reasons.

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Dave Chilton: [00:46:52:02 - 00:47:11:29] No, I agree. I think the show has really helped a lot of people. When I go into college and university campuses, especially five, ten years ago, I couldn't believe how many people came up and said, "I got involved in business at the university and college level because of Dragon's Den and Shark Tank. I grew up watching them."

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Dave Chilton: [00:47:11:29 - 00:47:15:04] "They lit the fire. They showed me the possibilities and pulled me in." So the show has done some very positive things on that front.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:47:15:10 - 00:47:36:18] Very much so. And again, the brand that they've built versus say, a Shark Tank, what I love about the Canadian brand and what the CBC has done is they're not trying to make people look bad. They're not trying to catch people like, "Oops, you screwed up here. Haha." They are just treating people with kindness and respect. And if something's not a good idea.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:47:36:22 - 00:47:52:16] They're still saying it in a nice way. And maybe that's just us all being Canadian and polite and apologetic, but the people that leave Dragon's Den, even when they don't get a deal, they'll often reach out to many of us and they'll still say what a difference it made to them.

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Dave Chilton: [00:47:52:20 - 00:47:59:02] Well, I listen, we really appreciate you coming on. You are a true Canadian icon. I mean that. I mean, what you've been able to achieve here, everybody knows your brands. Everybody knows your success. Just to finish up, tell us the name of your master company. The one that owns the brands. I find that very cool.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:47:59:06 - 00:48:21:01] Yeah. So it's O2E Brands, which stands for Ordinary to Exceptional. We take ordinary services like junk removal and make them exceptional through service. We take ordinary people like Tyler and Josh who started in the trucks. They bought out their franchise owner, and now they do $200 million in revenue. So it's taking that ordinary and just going, "How do you make it exceptional?"

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Brian Scudamore: [00:48:33:24 - 00:48:34:26] O2E!

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Dave Chilton: [00:48:34:28 - 00:48:53:03] Yeah, that's very cool. I was telling you off air that ours is “E2O”. We take exceptional people like Maureen and we've turned them into something very ordinary. In fact, maybe even below average. I'll come up with a new acronym for her. I don't know what we do. Anyway. Wonderful getting to know you this way. Thank you so much for coming on, and I'm sure we'll see each other again.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:48:53:06 - 00:49:05:19] Well, thank you very much, Dave, and I. I don't think I honestly would be here today if it wasn't for the inspiration of your book, The Wealthy Barber, which really helped me see the world of making money and making a difference. So thank you.

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Dave Chilton: [00:49:05:20 - 00:49:09:16] I will take shares as compensation, Brian. I'm not above that.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:49:09:19 - 00:49:12:28] [Laughing] Oh you’re cutting out now Dave. Dave, are you there?

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Dave Chilton: [00:49:13:00 - 00:49:13:28] [Laughing] Thanks again.

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Brian Scudamore: [00:49:14:00 - 00:49:14:22] Thank you.